December 17, 2017

Open Thread – March 8, 2013

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Please use this open thread to post your ideas, information and comments about issues not covered in articles published on this blog. Thank you.

  • Idaho_Roper

    Idaho Fish and Game Open House. Coeur d’ Alene Idaho.

    IDFG held a very interesting meeting last night. They have changed the format eliminating oral public comment and allowed the submittable of written comments. The general consensus seemed to be the doubt they would be read any of them.

    The charts and propaganda was as thick as flies on an August wolf kill. Charts attempting to prop up our failing elk herds and the seemingly new found discovery by the department, Idaho has a predator problem. While they are finally admitting that bears, cats and of course wolves are at the true cause of our elk declines and more importantly, their inability to recover.

    But, here is the kicker. While they are extending seasons and bag limits on cats and bears, they still continue to miss a few very important aspects, access and overly restrictive regulations. So these issues are what I chose to discuss with the employee’s of IDFG last evening. Here is an over view of those discussions.

    Dan Hayden:
    Mr. Hayden has been a biologist in the Panhandle for a very long time. He is an incredibly nice guy who underneath I believe ‘gets it’. He is aware and acknowledges the problems of the conservation biologists, and he agrees with the access and regulation issues we face. Truth be told he seemed surprised at some of the regulations I was talking about and logically admitted that they don’t really make sense. It does no good at all to realize that we need to reduce predator populations, but then make it as difficult as possible to harvest those predators. I gave him a copy of Mech’s recent admissions and told him to use them against those fake biologist intent of bastardizing science. While we agree to disagree on several issues, I always enjoy our discussions and get a little insight into the department and some of what they are doing.

    Tony McDermott
    Tony is the panhandle commissioner. We have a very sorted past and to be honest, he is a difficult guy to get along with. He is very open to people whom are willing to follow him, but not very to anyone who disagrees with him or the department. I did listen to him talking with another citizen at the meeting and was shocked at one of the comments he made. The guy talking to him was explaining a confrontation he had witnessed between a hunter in the field and an IDFG CO. It is a common complaint among sportsmen as IDFG’s CO seems to treat every sportsmen they encounter as a criminal to investigate. Every discussion is an interrogation and I always walk away from them with the feeling I need to take a shower (more about one of those discussions in a minute). But as the guy kept explaining the confrontation, Tony spoke out and stated “at that point, you should have grabbed him by the collar of his shirt and told him to get the hell out of there.” At which point I made the comment to him that if anyone was to actually do that, they would be going to town in handcuffs. I hope the guy never takes Tony’s advice as assaulting a CO would do nothing but cost a person a pile of money and jail time. But, at least, Mr. McDermott seemed to understand that these guys are crossing the line and that they are not only the face of the department but are some of the reason so many have such a bad taste in their mouths about IDFG.
    When the other person finished his discussion, I handed Tony a copy of Mech’s recent admissions, shook his hand and moved on.

    Chip Corsi
    Mr. Corsi is the top dog in the panhandle region. My discussion with him was also aimed toward the access and regulation issues in our predator hunting. While he agreed that regulations should be as simple as possible, he also stated that some are also created to “create opportunity”. In a nut shell, simply to make being successful as difficult as possible with the threat of fines and loss of hunting privileges. In my opinion, this mentality has taken away from hunting, not helped it. We also talked of the non-hunting public’s opinion, which is a new excuse they are using to try and dismiss hunters. Idaho has proven that even the non hunting public in Idaho is overwhelmingly supportive of hunting, trapping and fishing as proven in the last election which secured our right to hunt fish and trap in our state constitution. I don’t give that excuse much credit outside of it being something they want as an excuse.
    We also talked about some of the federal land issues and I found myself correcting him several times when he stated the ‘land owned by the feds”. Hello!, the government does NOT own that land, the people do. As such, the management by the government IS a problem and a problem IDFG seems all to willing to just roll over and accept. I keep trying to remind these guys that they could be allies in solving some of these problems as opposed to just being submissive pacifists. That may be a long road as I know they hate to rock the boat and threaten their federal government income.

    The unnamed CO. I didn’t get this guys name and I didn’t realize he was a CO when I first started talking with him. It only took about a minute of discussion to realize he was one of the jack boots we all have to deal with in the field. In bringing up the topic of access and regulations, his first comment was “it should be as hard as possible to stay legal while hunting”, it was at that very moment I realized I had a CO on my hands. These guys really do ooze arrogance and contempt. I decided to bring up an issue one of my partners had on a bear bait several years ago, the ticket was pitched in court as it was an absurd interpretation of the code by the CO (one of the problems with these convoluted regulations). It did result in the loss of one of our bait sites for the remainder of the season. This guy seen no problem at all with that situation and was totally unconcerned about the losses we faced, his last comment was “better luck next year”. He made it more than clear that the mentality many have toward these CO’s is very justified. Here is what I walked away from that conversation with…..
    The regulations should be as restrictive and convoluted as possible, so that the season may be as long as possible, so that I can write as many citations as possible. The guy was truly an ass and I am damn sorry I didn’t get his name before he just answered his phone and walked away.

    So there you have it, a changed format that didn’t really allow for oral comment and the admission of IDFG that we do indeed have a predator pit. Our elk numbers, even though they attempted to show them as ‘improving’ are far below any level that would allow for anything other than continued decline. The very best cow:calf ratio I seen posted was 33 calves per 100 cows, the minimum necessary number for a sustainable herd has always been identified as 35:100. Most areas were hovering in the teens and twenty’s with at least one in single digits. Our elk herds are already greatly reduced in number, and our calf recruitment is not going to stop that continued decline.

    All that seems to be seen is if IDFG is serious or not in the needed reduction in cats, bears and wolves, or is this just more lip service. I am seriously doubtful, but for now I will give them the benefit of that doubt.

    • RattlerRider

      “The ultimate ownership of all property{public and private} is in the state; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of Government, i.e., law, amounting to mere user; {Designated Multiple use – fee simple tenant-NO Allodium Title} and use must be in accordance with and subordinate to the necessities of the State.” —Senate Document#43;Senate RESOLUTION NO. 62 {Pg 9, Para 2} April 17, 1933.

      They’ve gotten away with it, and they’re going to keep getting away with it. Of course the Bible teaches other wise but are the people recognizing that law? Or are they still pretending they own the government, the agencies, and the lands? Recognition of these authority’s itself justifies the color of law documents and position of overseers of all lands for the title holder who created these false beliefs in the first place, who yes is a fraud, but they’re holding the powerful position at the moment. The people are not the state, and we must stop passing that deception around because it benefits no one! These “Overseers” have been protecting a false title held by a corporation that is paying them the salaries they live on.

      [Padelford Case of 1854 page. 35] *41
      “Now the principle at the bottom of all these propositions is this: The States have no power, by the exercise of which, they can defeat all the ends of Government-the General Government, or any of those ends. But the States, by the exercise of the taxing power, can take from their inhabitants every cent the inhabitants can spare, and live. According to the principle of this decision, therefore, the States have no power to lay any tax on their inhabitants; and if they have no power to tax, it follows that they have no power to enable them to keep up their State Governments; and without State Governments, they have no power to keep themselves alive, as States. The principle comes to this: that the States, in making the Constitution, intended to give up the power of selfpreservation (sovereignty).” [Padelford Case 1854 pg. 35]

      State citizens, State nationals, and Sovereign States gave up all power when they signed the constitution. And they weren’t states to begin with they were Royal Charters granted by the King. Something that is granted may be un-granted.

      Sovereign States are: States whose subjects or citizens are in the habit of obedience to them… [Blacks Law 5th Edition page 1238] Sovereigns are not citizens. Citizens are synonymous with subjects and subjects are synonymous with slaves. As in Subjected. Subject people don’t own shit. Did you notice at the meeting they treat you all like niggas? Time for everyone to understand WHY!

    • What about this comment: Jim Hayden mentioned tonight that elk numbers have declined by 70% since ’06 in the Panhandle. Of course he wasn’t on camera or being recorded when he said it. I’d like a hard copy of those numbers.

    • I heard that somebody out in the “hall” over heard IDFG staff talking “negatively” about sportsmen, laughing it up, and patting themselves on the back for “obstructing” a public meeting so sportsmen couldn’t comment. What do you know about that?

  • RattlerRider

    On March 20,1991 Presidend Bush signed into LAW a Congressional Joint Resolution entitled, ” A Joint Resolution To Designate March 26, 1991, As Education Day,USA”, This Joint title seems so innocuous that no one would think twice about it if they just happened to see it; however, this law is very sinister in it’s implications. It is only typical of The New World Order and it’s planners to devise innocent sounding words,phrases and titles to Mask their true intentions…

    Public Law 102-14 states emphatically that ALL civilization from The Beginning has been based upon a set of Laws entitled ” The Seven Noahide Laws ”

    Public Law 102-14, H.J. Res 104
    102nd Congress of the United States of America
    March 5, 1991

  • RattlerRider
    • TRemington

      Question: Not to attempt to defend anyone but do you think Bush knew what he was signing? Or that all those who voted for this knew what they were voting for? Considering the scary ramifications of whatever the right answer may be, I think I might be living in a parallel universe somewhere.

      • RattlerRider

        Considering the old mans credentials,Sovereign Military of Malta, Council of the 13 degrees of the Bavarian Illuminati, Russell Trust, Society of the Cincinatti, Scottish Rite high level pawn for Jesuits. Bush is also head of the DVD = Deutsche Verteidigungs Dienst = Nazi Odessa operation within the U.S. which hides within the Directorate for Intelligence of the Central Intelligence Agency, under the authority of the City of London Corporation mastered by the House of Bourbon

        • alrem

          I was thinking on the “credentials” and not knowing them that deeply, just call ’em evil bastards, period.

        • TRemington

          Dang! The more I ready, study and learn, the more I realize I am living in a parallel universe. To understand this means a complete makeover! God, grant me that please!

      • alrem

        Well, I don’t think they knew or realized what was what in the signing of it. I’m going with, Bush is the stupid son of a rich man. Having said that, I doubt my own words – these phreaks are evil – or really really stupid.

        Knowing what Rome still intends, fire is fine too.

      • RattlerRider

        Hell lets just go a bit farther; THEY FKEN KNOW;
        The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations, and The Bilderberg Group, all have a lot in common – PAPAL SERVING HOFJUDEN COURT Jewish membership. These 3 Groups also share a hatred of nations that oppose their `multiculturalism` which translates into `mult-religions` with no monolithic opposition against them.

        Here are several Christian-hating Jews: all interconnected:

        * Dianne Feinstein, Senator; Trilateral Commission

        * Madelaine Albright (Miriam Korbel); Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations

        * Richard C. Holbrooke (Richard Moos); Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group

        * Henry Kissinger; Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group

        * Alan Greenspan; Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations

        * Stanley Fischer, Chief Economist IMF, Chairman Bank of Israel; Bilderberg Group, Council on Foreign Relations

        * Paul Wolfowitz, Neocon; Bilderberg Group

        * Richarad Perle, Neocon; Bilderberg Group

        * Nadine Strossen, Executive Director, ACLU; Council on Foreign Relations

        * Mortimer Zuckerman, Chairman U.S. News and World Report; Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group

        * Stephen Friedman, Co-Chairman Goldman Sachs & Co; Trilateral Commission

        * Robert E. Rubin, Director Citigroup Inc; Council on Foreign Relations

        * Peter R. Kann, CEO of Wall Street Journal; Trilateral Commission

        * Katharine Graham, President Newsweek: Council on Foreign Relations

        * Richard N. Haass; President, Council on Foreign Relations

        * Martin S. Feldstein, President, National Bureau of Economic Research, Inc; Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group

        Do underestand gun confiscation yet? It’s battlefield economics. Cheaper to murder everyone if everyone is on they’re knees.

        • alrem

          Yes, some of the Talmud and they are off their rockers, pretenders (of Jews).

          • RattlerRider

            Ain’t unraveling the clever devilishness of these clowns fascinating? The Court Jews serve Rome. They’re building up to something GREAT!!!

  • RattlerRider

    Bloomberg-backed anti-gun lobbyist enjoys ‘assault weapons

  • Harley

    This is a pretty interesting movie. Not sure if any of you have seen it or heard of it.

    • somsai

      not much interest in horses other than knowing when they’ll stop wasting 75 million on a feral. There’s something for Ralph to do, go take care of the feral horse issue.

      • That might be a stretch for the Western Watersheds, first it “must” be an issue that destroys the rural working blue-collared families, mainly land owning “ranchers.” It must also “create” revenue, but “not” in the form of being self-sufficient as a Working Ranch, that takes blood, sweat, tears, and cows! No, something more like in the line of a guest-house to “rent” out to the “rich and famous” and PRETENDERS that like to play “rancher” for the weekend, all financed by Western Watersheds big sugar daddy over in Seattle, WA., darn what is that guy’s name again that has been WWP’s secret financier ?? Somebody by the name of Younger? He also owns a corrugated box manufacturer company, that USES wood fibers processed into card-board boxes, and sells those same card-board WOOD FIBER shipping crates to businesses like Starbuck Coffee, as he YOUNGER forces ranchers out of business.

        Anybody read that last Range Magazine article on Jon Marvel and G. Younger, (his mystery man?).

    • My Dad was a foster kid, and worked on a ranch called the “C” Ranch, owned by the “brother” of his foster mother. The “C” Ranch was over 90 miles across in Jordan Valley. Every summer he would stay with them, their daughter was Sally Ross, she was the cook and daughter of the ranch owner, and the wranglers stayed in the bunk houses.

      They would round up mustangs and sell them for fox feed, and they also went for dog and cat food and of course Elmer’s glue and other products. My dad had a total of three saddle horses that were mustangs that Sam Ross let him select from the “round-ups,” to break and train. When Sam Ross sold those mustangs, he sent my dad the “check” for the horses when he was fighting the Korean War.

      Can’t remember the “name” of the small town in Jordan Valley, where they used to drive to on a Saturday night, maybe it was also called Jordan Valley, it was a rowdy cowboy town. I’ve only “met” one person from that “town” or area, and worked with him one summer at WSU, when I was going to college.

      The guy’s name was Danny, and he told me a story about a fight he got into, where a man shot his dog. I asked him what happened next, and he said, “I shot the horse right out from underneath him.” Yup, sounded like the same town my dad said they used to drive to on Saturday nights, riding in an open top convertible in the 1950’s. Darn, I wish I could remember the name of that town, it might of been “named” Jordan Valley too. Probably was.

      • Harley

        Banner was the name of a fictional stallion, remember My Friend Flicka? Loved that story as a kid. The movie was pretty good. I’ve heard of this Extreme Mustang Challenge but this is the first time I’ve gotten a peek into the back stories of some of the people. The one horse Compadre, what a magnificent animal! Wow! I think you’ll like it!

  • RattlerRider

    Look what they’re doing, the era of granted liberties is ending; The Peace Treaty fought for by the anti federalists is dead; The stench of the RAT Patrick Henry smelled of the CON that could be used for good or evil is leaking out finally. Is there any doubts still? The King of England drafted the CON – compact adopted by those original signers, and these crooks are adopting it as well. You see this? Right in your face now. You are chattel property on the property, just another resource to them.

    Brennan takes oath on draft Constitution—without Bill of Rights

  • somsai

    Bob Ferris decided to spread a little of his hate around (why give all the attention to Dave Allen) and send it in Don Peay’s direction. Why? Because it looks like the state of Utah is giving him 300K to loby for wolf delisting. I might be on the other side politically from Don but on predators he’s one of the most effective advocates (for decreasing their numbers).

    Bob is easy to reel in like so many fish.

    • Oh, boy. You got to feel sorry for a “man” that is so unhappy that he has contributed “nothing” to society but “hate” to fulfill a misplaced- agenda, based on “dark ill-gotten ideologies,” that targets the “bed-rock” of America, the independent rural blue-collar working families.

      • Bobalee

        Chandie Morris Bartell aka Paul Bartell
        This man is far less hate filled than you and others in your arena portray.
        He has made more important contributions to wildlife science than you or other wolf haters ever have or will.
        Tell me about “bed-rock “. Do you know what it is? (geologically speaking)

        • RattlerRider

          All Laugh here.

        • alrem

          He, like your self cannot see past yer nose – you know, the one that is growing longer all the time. Please stop throwing false accusations, thank you.

          btw, you have been called only one name here; the rest are all true…. har har

        • Coming from a family that were farmers and lifetime sportsmen we have contributed to wildlife, not taken.

    • Robb and Paul–This has nothing to do with blue collar America other than preserving their rights to hunt and access to game. As to Peay and his lobbying, here is what a conservative blogger had to say and incidentally, BGF’s lobbyist is a former aide to Tom DeLay….

      • RattlerRider

        Politicians must be Gods first joke on mankind, second place has to be “environmentalists”. Left, Right, in between, it doesn’t matter they’re all dirty. If this 300K was given to some eco system “friendly” tribe for Utah wolfy enhancement you’d be all for it. Bottom line the “tax” payers still get fked, just not by you, you don’t give a damn about the funds or the amount, it’s because it’s going to a group you’re against and that’s the bottom line. Whats another 300K onto the increasing deficit fast approaching 17 trillion, and by 2018 probably 23 trillion. Helluva lien against the collateral which is public and private property which means somebody owns it and it isn’t our grand children.

        • If you actually believed in or acted on this rhetoric you would be against public lands grazing subsidies, which you are not.

          • RattlerRider

            Being for responsible multiple use does not equate to being for irresponsible subsidy funding. What is the damage done to private sector farm and ranch properties by elk and deer grazing on agricultural fields next to national forest and BLM lands from late fall into mid sometimes late spring. I can tell you 100 elk is costing a friend $5,000.00 annually. I have helped push those elk off his place four times in the month of November. This is a huge problem, and since these elk don’t like being in the hills anymore because the wolves constantly harass them the elk stay longer than in the past. Most of these ranchers feed these elk out of the kindness of their hearts, now that’s going to end, watch the state legislature because this topic is coming along when the studies are completed.

      • somsai

        You know Bob it’s considered bad netiquette to use people’s real names even their first names if they choose to use a pseudonym. Some forums it’s a reason for instant banning. The reason is that there are too many crazies out there, like you animal rights folks who stalk, make death threats, and otherwise harras hunters and trappers.

        If Peay is using the same lobbyist as the Blue Dog Coalition I’d say that’s great. My senator Udall is a member as was the former senator Salazar and Gabby Giffords, all people who have passed very good legislation. I’d think both Montana Senators are members.

        I support politicians who support legislation that I like without regard to affiliation, be they members of the Progressive caucus or the Republican Party.

        Radical Animal Rights groups such as yours and Defenders, and all the rest have spent millions lobbying congress for years. I’m glad there are some people and groups that are willing to support hunters and wildlife management for a change. I’m sick of all the crying and gnashing of teeth from predator hobbyists.

        PS, What’s with WM calling you “apparently a wildlife biologist”. Did you actually finish school or what? University of Phoenix, or Santa Cruz?

        • Somsai, Neither Defenders or Cascadia Wildlands are animal rights groups–this is essentially rumor spreading and false. As to my credentials, your comment is a little misleading and dishonest as you visited my profile on linkedin and were therefore able to see what degrees I have and from where. So please stop the games.

          • Harley


            You have a pretty big set to come on here and comment after the things you wrote up about the people that are regular posters here.

          • Harley, I am not sure whether it is courage or commitment to the truth. I am very committed to having fact and honesty-based dialogues. So when I see people feeling they can say pretty much anything or repeat unfounded opinions, I feel compelled to comment particularly when I am mentioned personally or my written works are critiqued.

          • RattlerRider

            You’ve not refuted one clue I’ve referenced in regards of the global power structure of the world. Yet I have posted countless evidences where they, the Vatican say from their own mouths that they are the King of this world. You go around claiming ownership of public lands yet you show nothing other than fee simple and or designated use privileges. Who holds allodial title? Who designed this system of legalese used by this corporation known as the u.s. government? How many Supreme Court cases over the last two hundred years support my opinion that The financiers of the Sovereign City of London in cahoots with the Vatican are the holders of that title? That quote you posted in that silly blog of lies YOU created and added myself to is far more accurate in truth than anything you’ve said about me. And you still haven’t refuted the facts I posted in the several replys I made towards yourself in which you excerpted the quote from. How many hours, days months have you spent in the law library’s? I spent YEARS researching this evidence. So on the one hand while you claim others are not qualified to comment on the wolf issue you will go off half cocked concerning world history which is another man’s area of expertise and mock it, even though you’re not qualified to mock it at all. You’re not qualified to represent yourself in a court of law either. Which means in the legalese department you’re incompetent in the eyes of the court. I’ve argued for myself in the courts several times, and won. You’re a petty slandering fool.

          • Rattler,

            I am glad that somewhere, some place there is an electronic venue for you to post your off-topic and irrelevant posts. But I have to point out that your legal research is as challenged as your grasp of biology and ecology. Clearly, you can read these blogs, but you also need to read the 1871 Act as well as others to understand what is being said there. Incorporated has several different meanings and you have to look at context. Many people live in unincorporated areas that are not contained within the legal boundaries of a municipality. It is a complicated world with many meanings defined by use and context. Perhaps you should spend a little time checking to see if these blogs you read are credible.

            Although the word ‘allodial’ has been used in the context of
            private ownership in a few states of the United States, this ownership is stillrestricted by governmental authority.[1]


            “We may say in passing that the argument that the

            United States may be treated as a corporation

            organized under its own laws, that is, under the

            Constitution as the fundamental law, seems so strained

            as not to merit serious consideration .”


          • RattlerRider

            You actually think I Haven’t seen this bunk many times? This excuse is as sorry as the ones the sovereign citizen freeman constitutionalist anti federalist rebels use and lose within the courts where they not only claim ownership of the lands and constitution but that they created the constitution and the government itself, where they claim the states rights supersede federal laws. To funny.

          • RattlerRider


            When a large corporation such as the Vatican, and a corporation that larger corporation owns and controls called the Roman Catholic Church writes in HER CANNON laws they rule this worlds nations, they own and hold all title to properties, they state that they can alter any countries laws, they specifically state the laws of the united states, I tend to take them serious. And apparently several u.s. presidents, senators, and the congress of this government take that very seriously as well. Thus since many of us have made this discovery and tried to bring these truths into the light because it is very relevant concerning our historical, political, and personal rights. And what is our payment for being watchmen on the wall. To be mocked and slandered by fools that do not know one way or the other the reality of the situation.

            Eccl law US pg 254-2550001 PDF


            ECCLES LAW Vol _1 52 PDF


            ECCLES LAW Vol _1 53 PDF


            ECCLES LAW Vol _1 54 PDF


            Prove it wrong or shut up, and man up and apologize;

            WE DON’T OWN AMERICA


          • RattlerRider

            As for your “science” philosophy, we observed that during the years the wolf was under the ESA and we don’t believe you anymore.

          • Thank you Harley.

        • Bobalee

          “You know Bob it’s considered bad netiquette to use people’s real names even their first names if they choose to use a pseudonym”
          That is what I thought until Greg Farber, Barry Coe, and Chandie Morse Bartell started spreading my name over as much territory as they could regarding my opinions on the wolf issue.

          • RattlerRider

            That is bullshit. I’ve mentioned your name in Toms web articles only. You’ve posted my name at the Idaho Mountain Express, The Wildlife News, the BBB and here. I’ve returned the favor to see how you like it as you started this crap in the first place against myself several years ago. Under your real name and under “Lee.” I quit using my name as my father was attacked by some lunatic wolf nut case seeking me, my truck was vandalized as well. I had a Wall Tent Camp destroyed, and Kemery had his Wall Tent camp, stoves, out door equipment completely removed. Interestingly enough Lynne Stone knew of both camps and she knew my truck as she posted my license plate ID MULES on the Wildlife News.


          • Bobalee

            And as the result of my posting at Ralph’s under Barb Rupers you connected my comments at the BBB under Lee with the two sites and posted my name on the BBB.

          • RattlerRider

            Seems to me I just said as much. YOU started doing that crap long before I knew your name. You still aren’t smart enough to knock it off either.