January 16, 2018

Idaho Gov. Otter Using Wolf Politics to Bolster His Political Power Struggle

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Below is a press release (with a link) from Idaho Governor Otter’s office attempting to show his support for the need to control wolves in Idaho and appearing to show agreement with statements made about big money to be made in promoting and litigating wolf issues.

Steve Alder, head of Idaho for Wildlife and referenced in the press release quote, in a brief email notification stated that the governor “must be desperate.” That may be. However, I see Otter’s efforts at nothing more than political posturing to gain support for his own selfish needs. When Idahoans consider (whether they are or not I have my doubts) that the Governor supported the legislation that would force ranchers and hunters to pay for “management” of GI wolves forced down their throats, how does such action show any kind of real support for the people of Idaho and/or the “need” to control wolves? Politics is dirty, disgusting business. This nonsense by the governor is nothing more than some half-assed attempt at gaining a few more votes for personal gain.

Regardless of my personal feelings about this issue of wolves in Idaho, here is what came in a press release from Governor Otter’s office:

Governor Otter Reinforces Need for Controlling Wolves

(BOISE) – Governor C.L. “Butch” Otter released the following statement in response to the Twin Falls Times News article run on Monday, July 7, 2014 regarding wolves in Idaho.

“Nobody in Idaho or anywhere else has any doubts about where I stand on wolves. I fought to keep them out; I fought to limit their impact; and I fought successfully for Idaho’s right to manage them. I am committed to asserting whatever control we can by having Idaho people manage the federally imposed challenges we can’t avoid. Unfortunately, my Democrat opponent disagrees. He supported the wolves being brought to Idaho from Canada, and he thinks spending tax dollars to help control the damage they’re doing to Idaho’s big game and livestock is a waste of money. Once again, while I’m working for us and fighting to protect Idaho values, he’s supporting environmental absolutists and rolling over to the Obama White House.”

Below is an excerpt of the article titled Wolf War Renews as Big Money Flows, July 7, 2014.

“While wolves were busy killing a record number of sheep and cattle in Idaho last year, lawmakers and environmentalists were busy amassing money to renew their longstanding battles over the predator.

On July 1, the Idaho Wolf Depredation Control Board was established to kill wolves that attack livestock and eat elk through $400,000 in tax money, livestock levies and sportsmen’s fees.

In response, Defenders of Wildlife, a national organization, began a high-dollar media campaign in Idaho calling for Gov. C.L. Butch Otter to end his “War on Wolves.” The conservationists purchased online ads in Boise and Hailey-based newspapers and radio spots across the state. Clicking on some of them leads to an online petition, others have a “donate now” button.

That proves what Steve Alder, executive director of Idaho for Wildlife, said he has long suspected — conservationists are using Idaho’s wolf population to line their pockets. As one of the state’s leading anti-wolf contingents, Alder’s group has frequently locked horns with environmentalists, including a winter wolf derby and a spat over a dead colt in Hailey.”

To view the entire article, visit http://magicvalley.com/news/local/wolf-war-renews-as-big-money-flows/article_8384f9dc-0595-11e4-a828-001a4bcf887a.html.

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  • GoldDust

    IDFG must be reducing elk hunting opportunity all over Idaho for propaganda purposes right? Nobody underestimated the capabilities of these wolves right? All nations around the world{especially Russia and Canada} with historical evidence concerning the problems over populated wolves cause are all wrong right? No elk hunting opportunities in Idaho in one hunting zone have been increased right? All of the USFWS wolf management data out of Alaska from the early to mid 20th century which proves wolf management kept Moose and Caribou herds in positive growth was all BS right? Did that management benefit wolves as well as man? Wolverines which I used to occasionally enjoyed observing during a snow machine ride, horse back ride or hike into places I learned wolverines frequented have either been starved out or they moved out because of my actions or the irresponsible actions of damned fools over protecting over populated wolves? How does an eco system that cannot support my annual one deer and one elk consumptive use support wild carnivores that hunt 24/7/365?? When this idiot society completely buffaloed by BS scientists finally gets all predator management shutdown and then all prey bases go down what will their excuse be then? I know most people that can still think for themselves will be saying, “We told you so”.

    So if Otter loses we’re going to see more elk and deer like back in the good old days? I hope he loses because after a few years of his opponents ideas of using unproven wolf management techniques I want to see who the “expert wildlife” environmentalist aficionados point the finger at when things concerning wildlife and ag lands really goes all to hell because this will reach a point where this ongoing suppression of evidence no longer hides the truth. 70 years ago the hunting community decided hunters needed to be managed, for good reason. To allow all species of ungulates to expand. And limited management of wild {Cougars and Bears} carnivores was and still is for the same good reason which is positive growth of the prey species. This method justified bringing in a wolf population, never mind that the wolves were naturally reestablishing themselves. Now we’re told wolves don’t need to be managed at all, we’re told we don’t need an elk in the freezer, and the habitat will improve by wildlife destroying itself, lead by the wolves, down to near no wildlife, then the wildlife will come back with the habitat, over populate again and repeat. In the meantime these brilliant bastards pushing this nonsense over looked the effects of ten year droughts and five years deep snow cycles on all wildlife species which die off trying to migrate out of steep Idaho back country. These same dumb bastards believe in crown fire damages and allowing elk and deer trapped in migratory routes because of massive snow falls to stand there and starve to death for months because thats natural.

    When hunting by man was not managed here and the wildlife collapsed whereupon elk were reintroduced in Idaho from YNP did that improve Idaho’s high desert habitat? Nope. Idaho still had drought and heavy snow cycles.

    Environmentalist anti hunting posers can keep lying to themselves. We live here, we see what went down here. Some Idaho hunt zones meet objectives and targets??? Whose pray tell??? The liars killing your wolves???

    Nothing will get better. No group will improve things. Not the political hacks nor the environmentalist posers claiming they are conservationists. All conned.

    An important tool for elk recovery in the Panhandle

    http://www.cdapress.com/columns/my_turn/article_dd7fcaf5-b9f4-5768-a631-e21b0fae6e46.html

    Changing from 72 hours to 15 days is stupid;

    “There is an urgent need to change Idaho’s wolf trapping regulations so a longer interval is permitted between the checking of a trapper’s snares. Presently that interval is 72 hours or three days. It needs to be expanded to 15 days. ”

    This is the hard truth of wolves;

    “The impact of wolf predation on Idaho’s populations of elk, moose and deer has been catastrophic especially in prime hunting areas historically hunted by resident and non-resident hunters. Not only have our ungulate populations been relegated to minimal numbers in important hunting areas but so have the businesses and the industries which support hunting and outfitting. Hunting wolves alone does not manage them in the same manner as the hunt for black bears and mountain lions manages those species. Trapping wolves in addition to their being hunted can have a positive impact on recovering our ungulate populations of elk, moose and deer where they have suffered major depletion.”

    I say capture wolves in Idaho using the same methods used in Canada for reintroduction in YNP and Central Idaho, {where the hunting is so lousy now its an embarrassment politicians and wildlife aficionados want suppressed for obvious political reasons}and relocate these wolves to wherever Jon, Ida, and Kaine like to take their walks and observe other species of wildlife. Sterilize their forests of wildlife and lets see how they love that.. Let Idahoans manage YOUR immediate environment exactly how YOU want it where you live…

    Lets see if we make you happy.

    • TRemington

      That’s a terrific idea.

    • Pete Braun

      Otter is no expert. He’s been abusing his position of power just to fulfill his own personal ambitions. And those excuses he gave out when he got pulled over for drunk driving when he was Lt. Gov.? Sheer bullshit. Getting drunk from soaking chewing tobacco in Jack Daniel’s? Please. I’ve soaked chewing gum in Skyy and never gotten drunk from that. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Otter.

  • Pete Braun

    Butch Otter is the Adolf Hitler of this millennium. What he’s doing to Idaho’s wolves is the same thing that Hitler did to Europe’s Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, communists, homosexuals and handicapped. And in doing so, he has crippled education and sent Idaho into the bottom 5 in the nation in that aspect. I hope he gets hit by lightning the next time he’s outside in the woods and explodes.

    • RattlerRider

      When you get animals to respect each others rights then I’ll buy into your animals rights equality with my rights bullshit. Since that will never happen you’re fked. Education was ruined in this country in the 1920s by John Rockefeller’s puppet John Dewey. That coercive curriculum of indoctrination’s main objective has been to destroy individual freedom with collectivist group think.. Social engineering. What Hitler did is being repeated in this country by both political parties. It really will go world wide this time around. You’re caught up in it and you don’t even know it. There is in fact a struggle against the left which is Marxist and the right which is Nietzscheist totalitarian state, and the propagandists who support such a state. Communitarianism.. I call it Communaziism.. Your politicians are all joined at the hip. The concept that “Might is Right” and promoted by, “The Ends are Justified by the Means” is simply a manifestation of Realpolitik. Fools such as yourself love this concept when it goes your way and you hate it when it goes against the way that you think is the right way.. You’re just another simpleton in love with tyranny against anyone that has a differing world view than the one you’ve attached with emotionally. Guess what? There is a world of reality outside of the fake reality you’ve been brought up in.. I suggest you quit being stupid and seek it out..

      • Pete Braun

        I suggest YOU are the one who needs to quit being stupid and ignorant. Republicans are the more fascist of the two major political parties, and Otter is a clear example of this. The list is endless. Republicans are gonna be the global tyrants. But since you share their views, it’s obvious you’d welcome that more so than you would if it were Democrats calling the shots. All the right-wing cares about is itself.

        And you’re one to talk about being in love with tyranny. It’s obvious you’ve had sex with tyranny. Surprised you haven’t caught an STD. What you called “reality” is a science-fiction/horror realm straight out of the likes of 1984 and Silent Hill. Guess what? That’s not reality. That’s the delusional fantasy of the right wing that you clearly live in. Only death can free you from that sad delusion, regardless of how it happens.

        • RattlerRider

          Thats your false reality again. And that is partly what I said, the right is Nietzsche. The left is Marxist. Apparently you’ve never studied the two philosophies that make up those “two” political parties. THERE IS ONLY ONE POLITICAL PARTY PETE. Interesting that they both get their financing from the same Banking Cartel in control of them.. You could claim anyone keeping rabbits from destroying their gardens are being right wing tyrannical extremists. And you’d still be DEAD WRONG.

          The majority of the political sciences research I’ve done is straight out of various Universities, YALE, Georgetown, Princeton, Fordham, Notre Dame.. Several others.. So according to you those political scientists with PhDs explaining these political problems are fantastically delusional.. Even as the political party of prosperity posing as two political parties in division consistently proves them correct..

          To bad you are so puerile, childish, immature, infantile, juvenile, babyish and jejune.

          • Pete Braun

            Every adjective you just said about me in that last sentence is a reflection of yourself. At least the left have people that care about more than just themselves. The right do not. That is the difference.
            But once again, your “reality” blinds you from realizing that the side you support cares only about itself. Nothing but a murder of puerile, childish, immature, infantile, juvenile, babyish, jejune, asinine cunts.

          • RattlerRider

            These comments by you are the most astonishing BS I have read on the blog to date, it even tops Louise Kane’s outrageous nonsense.. The side you are on is as corrupt as the side you are against. And the best part is they are both the same side.. I’m Anti political. I don’t have a side.

            Raise some colts and dogs and see how you like it when a wolf pack invades your private space and destroys them.

            You’ve obviously been exploited by outrageous liars..

          • Pete Braun

            On the contrary, YOU are the outrageous liar. And clearly an anarchist. As for the colts and dogs, your protection must clearly suck. That was the wolves’ territory LONG before humans arrived on the scene.
            And if it weren’t for early humans’ allying with wolves who weren’t fearful of them, those dogs you speak of wouldn’t exist. Love your dog? Thank a wolf. I certainly do. Don’t want to raise dogs and colts in wolf territory? Move out. How does Bear Island sound? I hear it’s lovely this time of year.

          • RattlerRider

            Pete Braun; Comic review-unsubstantiated opinion 1316..

          • RattlerRider

            What you’ve repeatedly written here in your comments are some of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read by anyone making up total garbage opinion about someone else and other people in general. At no point in your rambling, incoherent rant were you even close in guessing or assuming anything about anyone here that could be considered a rational honest or fair accusation. Anyone reading anything you post is in danger of being dumber for reading it. You’re the compleat idiot, yes, the compleat well rounded unbalanced idiot. You should be in a straight jacket.

          • Pete Braun

            Everything you say about me being the dumb one is nothing more than a feeble attempt to cover your own stupidity, Greg Farber. You, Tom, Scott, Chandie, and every other such dipshit dimwit from Idakhstan (formerly known as Idaho)are dragging down the intelligence level of the rest of America along with the rural south and the other states of Amerikhastan (formerly the Northern Rockies states that have Yellowstone in them to some extent). Your anti-government rants clearly show your lack of intelligence and the degree of raging paranoia that runs amok through the region. At NO point in any of your rants would anyone with a shred of perception find anything that speaks even .00000001% of the truth and those who think you do are in danger of being corrupted and posing a colossal threat to the intelligence level of the nation. Ever wonder why 17 other countries graduate more scientists than America does? People like you are why. You are the real complete, well-rounded, unbalanced idiot who should be blood eagle-d in a straight jacket.

          • TRemington

            For someone who has such a biased, nasty, rotten opinion of me and others, you sure seem to spend a lot of time on this website.

          • RattlerRider

            Funny aye? Speaking of anti government rants they seem to miss the fact that they are themselves anti government because they are always protesting government. They hate half of the government’s political process and would see it destroyed and they hate government sanctioned wildlife management. ALSO they hate anyone else doing the same thing, being critical of governmental policies. Obviously this guy hates freedom of conscience and the freedom to express ones conscience openly which is allegedly another governmental granted civil right which he opposes unless it’s his right to blabber away about what his perception of reality is.. He certainly has the concept of exaggeration mixed with political propaganda down.. Demonic..

          • Pete Braun

            Biased, nasty, rotten assholes like you deserve all the hate in the world. You prey on fear, you spew bullshit arguments and lies, and you even use religion as your excuse. Damn, you people are incredibly stupid. But what else does one expect from those who get their “facts” and views based on an institution that’s never had a big problem with murder. You people are living proof of how more life has been lost in the name of God than for any other reason. Need further proof? Look at places and events like Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Kashmir, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the first World Trade Center, to see just how seriously you religious people take “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Which makes you no different from ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Boko Haram, the Medieval Catholic Church, etc. I could go on for hours about this, but your rants only further prove my point. Reading your bullshit is like reading an issue of L’ami du Peuple.
            If you don’t know what L’ami du Peuple is, look it up. I’m not telling you because you clearly won’t learn anything if I telly you.

          • RattlerRider

            Proof you don’t know what you’re talking about because you don’t read anything here because we protest the very same institution of false religion which you’ve claimed we support in this silly rant. We’ve done a deep forensic analysis into the fallacies of the Vatican here, and the false Biblical teachers for years..

            THE BIBLE IS NOT THE PROBLEM THE PROBLEM IS THE TRADITIONS OF MEN..

          • Pete Braun

            You sure don’t show that you protest it.

          • RattlerRider

            Right Pete. Thats why this is such a bastion of right wing nuts commenting here aye? Such as Chandie and Scott for example who have turned against us because we don’t support their political phony conservative rightism and the lollipop history of a minimalist form of republican governance fairy tale..

            The only legitimate personal gripe you have against myself is I eat elk.. And believe wild carnivores should be carefully managed to produce abundance.. Even Mech has come out and said self management is a myth.. It is nonsense..

          • RattlerRider

            I see you’re snarling like a mutt again Pecker head..

          • Pete Braun

            At least I’m not the result of what happens when cousins fuck.

          • RattlerRider

            Are you sure about that? Insanity is usually part and parcel to inbreeding and you’ve got the insanity part down..

          • Pete Braun

            Nope, you’re thinking of yourself again.

          • RattlerRider

            Interesting. You graduated high school.. Did some liberal arts afterwords.. Why is all of your commenting only written in 6th grade level grammatik? This explains why there is such a communication breakdown between Pete Braun and others..

            READABILITY
            INDEX: 16.97

            4th 6th 8th 10th 12th 14th

            |****|****|****|****|****|****|****|****|****|****|

            SIMPLE
            |
            —— GOOD —– | COMPLEX— Readers, u.s. corporate person citizen subject slaves need a 17th grade level of legal terms education in order to comprehend the legal terms, science terms, including political science terms in use today by managers of these societies. The legal/lawful terminology devised by others which is constantly evolving, being made up as they go writing by design is complex and may be difficult to read. Most legalese statute nonsense has a reading grade level of a 17th grade level, that is as high as the Grammatik program goes. The terms in international law do go higher. The laws of man are also the private intellectual property of one single corporation practicing management of world affairs.. This evidence can be found at the W.I.P.O. intellectual property data base for confirmation.. yet there is no Monolithic effort by a private power to control all man, all resources, all beliefs, and all societies via deceptive terminologies. No distractions of fake news..

            According to a high school grad with some liberal arts training… Ok…

          • RattlerRider
          • Pete Braun

            Boring.

          • RattlerRider

            Yeah.. Describes you anti hunting nuts perfectly.. boring anarchist communists bitching about state hunting LAWS..

          • Pete Braun

            Laws that shouldn’t have even been allowed to be conceived and were done so by people whose mothers should’ve had medical plans that included abortion. Come to think of it, that’s the same kind of plan YOUR mother should’ve had, Herr Farber.

          • RattlerRider

            It’s interesting how your ideology always devolves down to murdering people or worse the unborn child in a woman’s womb. Fascinating reading you types contradict your chosen beliefs. Meanwhile the very animals you’d kill or abort us over are practicing the same thing, eating other animals. They even kill their own species and young.. And they can never do what we can do, which is better their environment by managing their numbers, fix their wounded, raise their abandoned young.. The science of animals comes from all of those things.. No managing them no science. So I eat a little meat on the side, and I go out and fetch it myself.. It’s what animals do.. It’s what man has done for thousands of years..

            AND HAD YOU ACTUALLY READ ANYTHING HERE YOU’D KNOW WE ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE RIGHT WING NOR THE LEFT WING FAIRY TALE.

            Condemnation mixed with false accusations and feeble wimpy intimidation aren’t cutting it little guy try some more..

          • Pete Braun

            If you think a fetus is so important, try getting one to wash the shit stains out of your underwear… for no pay and no pension. Besides, those animals you speak of, they kill to eat. And nature was doing a good job managing populations herself before humans – or in your case SUB-humans – decided to put themselves in charge. You clearly have no faith in nature to look after herself, do you?
            And I have YET to see anything to show your political neutrality, too.

          • RattlerRider

            In his book Tragedy And Hope, Carroll Quigley, Council on Foreign Relations member and mentor to Bill Clinton, stated:
            “It must not be felt that these heads of the world’s chief central banks were themselves substantive powers in world finance. They were not. Rather, they were the technicians and agents of the dominant investment bankers of their own countries, who had raised them up and were perfectly capable of throwing them down. The substantive financial powers of the world were in the hands of these investment bankers (also called “international” or “merchant” bankers) who remained largely behind the scenes in their own unincorporated private banks. These formed a system of international cooperation and national dominance which was more private, more powerful, and more secret than that of their agents in the central banks.”~Quigley

          • RattlerRider

            Good grief.. Man kills to eat. We all kill to eat.. Either directly or indirectly. Go visit the farms where your fruits and vegetables are produced. Wildlife dies so the produce is not destroyed. I’ve worked on farms, ranches, and in orchards.. I’ve experienced it first hand. What this ultimately boils down to is you’re simply protesting other peoples food choices.. What they put on their plates. You’re making a war over a menu.

            LIKE I STATED BEFORE. WHEN YOU GET THE ANIMALS TO ALL GO VEGAN AND RESPECT EACH OTHERS RIGHTS INCLUDING MY OWN RIGHTS THEN I’LL LISTEN TO YOUR BS…

          • RattlerRider

            Your silly comments here are simply a glaring example of the psychopathy of denial. Nothing in any of your comments is based on fact, just opinionated drivel and propaganda against others with a different perspective of the world..

            You have continually used your rhetorical hyperbole combined with aggravated assault in accusing me of not making reasonable arguments and that I am a republican.. You are wrong on both counts. I am a man living my life separate from your totally fked up society. I should have known better than to try and communicate with you because obviously you do not have the capacity to comprehend the conversation concerning these issues.. You continue to argue from rote dogmatic positions using your cheesy propaganda playbook. What a waste of time you are.. One can learn critical thinking and argumentation, but one cannot learn how to not be insane. Nothing will help you.

            Quit wasting our time here with your un-provable theoretical presumptuous opinions. EITHER GIVE ME SOMETHING I CAN VALIDATE AND BELIEVE OR SHUT THE FK UP!

          • TRemington

            Rattler said, “AND HAD YOU ACTUALLY READ ANYTHING HERE YOU’D KNOW WE ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE RIGHT WING NOR THE LEFT WING FAIRY TALE.” He also said it is proof you don’t read but only selected things here and so you don’t realize on some of your rant, we agree with you. The blinding mistake you are making is using your broad “right wing” brush as being anything you might disagree with. Without honest understanding of the left/right paradigm, the task at hand is difficult…at best. If all you can offer is that everything bad in the world is because of right wing fascism, it will get old very quickly.

            As an FYI Pete, you are borderline in being too vulgar on this website. Cussing and swearing is one thing but to delve into comments as low as you are approaching, will leave me with options I really don’t want to exercise. Please clean it up a bit if you wish to continue.

            In addition, I tolerate a lot here so long as people, along with their rants, offer something more than just rhetorical rants based on propaganda. A continuous and repetitious slugging away with offering nothing but attacks on anyone’s personal beliefs is trolling and non productive.

          • Pete Braun

            You can take that vulgarity claim and scarf yourself with it. And apart from the communists of the latter days of the Weimar Republic – and maybe Mussolini’s regime – all fascism has been right-wing.

            As for those options you say you don’t want to exercise… I’d rather see those include you being on the receiving end of a Colombian necktie. (I’m not gonna tell you what it is. Look it up.) And your book What’s There To Misunderstand? Sheer bullshit.

          • RattlerRider

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/63374ac96088c95c63fba8a5fe04b8a1c2c0f709034c3ec22bdeb272644a3686.jpg

            You obviously have terrible reading of terms comprehension issues..

            Hopefully Tom recognizes the futility in any discussion with you and ends this madness by you NOW..

          • TRemington

            I’ll take that as a threat and file a report with the FBI office in Idaho.

            And I’m not so stupid as to think you actually read the book. You don’t read anything here except to take opportunities to comment on had selected items that are your pet perversions.

            Good bye, Pete!

          • RattlerRider

            I’d file it in Wisconsin where he lives.

          • TRemington

            I have placed a call to my lawyer and she will contact the appropriate authorities where he lives and register a formal complaint. I have highlighted all the vulgar and threatening comments made to be passed on.

          • RattlerRider

            The Colombian necktie is sometimes credited to drug kingpin Pablo Escobar. It was intended as a method of psychological warfare, meant to scare and intimidate.

            A Colombian necktie, also known as the Italian necktie, Cambodian necktie or Cuban necktie, is a method of execution where the victim’s neck is slashed (with a knife ..

            The Colombian Necktie is sometimes erroneously credited as having been invented by reputed drug kingpin Pablo Escobar, but this infamous method of killing was already present since 1950, during La Violencia in Colombia’s civil war, it was performed on enemies as psychological warfare meant to scare and intimidate those who later encountered the body.[1][2]

            A Colombian Necktie can also refer to another act in which the victim is castrated and choked to death with his own genitals.

            Colombian Necktie
            https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Colombian_necktie

          • TRemington

            That fits!

          • RattlerRider

            Michigan.

          • TRemington

            Okay. Thank you. I’ll pass that on if my lawyer hasn’t found that out already.

          • RattlerRider

            Owners of his place of employment are being made aware of his online behavior.

          • RattlerRider

            Only the national socialist right is fascist.. So when you make death threats like this you’re not being a fascist?

            Sheesh.. It’s amazing watching you repeatedly contradict yourself..

            Gawblesmurka!

          • RattlerRider

            We know you mental basket cases want equal rights with canines. I think you should be granted those same rights.. Then you’d have something to whimper about. A bowl of biscuits and a kick in the ass twice a day.. I hear its a lovely life..

          • Pete Braun

            The only ones here deserving a kick in the ass are the likes of you.

          • RattlerRider

            So while you’re on your outrageous false accusations tantrum here I should ask you a question..

            If you research the history of the governors of Idaho about half of them were left wing politicians.. Almost all of them were avid hunters and fisherman. Some of them even did back country travel using horses and mules.. Do you include them in your hatefulness or is your hatred exclusively only directed towards their political counterparts?

            And out of that 72% of Idahoans who voted for hunting and fishing rights in Idaho 23% of them were democrats. Also 70% of the voters polled in Idaho want wolf management. That’s a democratic process. IN FACT I HAVE FRIENDS ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS POLITICAL CHARADE and the ones on the left hunt and fish and after they seen what wolves do to to elk herds they demanded wolves be managed..

            Apparently you don’t comprehend how the democratic process functions. You must be to busy hating everyone to spend some time researching the meanings of things such as, Indirect Democratic Republics..

            Words like Federal, Common Wealth, Republic, Jural Society, Left wind democrat, Right wing democrat.. Two sides of the same political coin ALWAYS going in the same predetermined direction..

            Yeah I see how the left cares about everyone.. I see how the right cares for everyone as well.. I see it clearly, and its all the same..

            The fact is they don’t care. Look in the mirror at yourself.. You care about us do you? It sounds like your care for us is hatred. Pure hate..

            You’re sick in your head.

          • Pete Braun

            The only species in need of management in Idaho are the anti-wolf wackos. The less of them that roam Idaho, Amerikhastan (aka the Yellowstone states) and America in general, the better.
            Say what you want about the left, but at least they’re not the ones turning Idaho into a one-party state. Sound familiar? Do Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany come to mind? Does Communist Russia come to mind, too? Lenin? Stalin? Do either of those names sound familiar? They marginalized opposing parties to the point of outlawing them. That’s exactly what the Republican party is doing in Idaho, and now they’re attempting to do the same on the national stage.
            All they’re about is pure hatred for anyone who isn’t white and shares their point of view. You’re no different, Greg Farber. I still remember your name from the article Wolf Hatred Is A Gateway To Bigotry. Full of shit, as ever. Just like every other anti-wolf name featured in some fashion. Pure hatred runs through you sick fucks like loose shit through your bowels.
            If anyone is sick in the head, it’s you.

          • RattlerRider

            Uh huh, so it’s only democracy when the votes support what you believe to be the truth..

          • Pete Braun

            What I said IS the truth. What you spew is sheer bullshit that you try and disguise as facts.

          • RattlerRider

            You’re either totally insane or you’re a clown that gets off on saying stupid shit…

            You have no basis for calling anyone a liar. Repetition-Repetition is not valid argumentation, it is senseless redundancy.

            There is of course a Hegelian flip side to this ‘socialist’ bullshit that your nice leftist professors promote. Both the left and the right lead to the total State. Whatever the “blowback” will be, it is a spin of the roulette wheel as to what color slot the ball lands in. It has the stench of eugenics leaking out of its ugly pores..

          • Pete Braun

            I have every basis to call you and your ilk liars. You, on the other hand, have no basis in your claims. What you clearly want is a fascist state that celebrates the warrior cult image and smites anyone who dares oppose you. The illogical right-wing, i.e. you, will be the death of America, and the birth of Amerikhastan.

          • RattlerRider

            Dangerous anger has already produced the worst possible outcome for this country. Thoughtless and inconsiderate idiots like you.

          • Pete Braun

            Thoughtless and inconsiderate sums you up better than it does me.

          • RattlerRider

            It’s interesting that the leftism and the rightism are leading both of their following down the same path to the same predetermined outcomes.. And the response from both sides of the following in defense of their choice of political dogma are similar when attacking non believers of the left versus right paradigm.. That political paradigm is all either of you can see while shrieking madly at one another how right and wrong each side is..

            The meme of “Social Pluralism” is created by the manipulation of the perception of appearances, using the techniques of psychological persuasion developed by Bernays as early as the 1920’s. “Social Pluralism” is in fact a method of ‘divide and conquer’ used by the Public Relations Regime of the Money Power. The key issue to grasp is that it is not wealth that is the goal to the elites, it is POWER, that is their ultimate goal.

            “The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy” (Tragedy and Hope, 1966.)

            Quigley was an American University professor. PhD in political science..

          • RattlerRider

            Wrote any music of your own yet? Or are you still playing air base guitar to the Scorpions?

            Thats original..

            You want to keep playing with me dummy?

          • RattlerRider

            Complete nonsense.

        • RattlerRider

          So there is no Monolithic Conspiracy to control the world, it’s the rethuglican dogma and me and Tommy…. Bwahahahahahahahaha

          • Pete Braun

            Raging paranoia has the upper hand on all of you. I’m not believing any such claims until I see something definitive for myself rather some clear-cut bullshit from out of right field.

          • RattlerRider

            It’s never going top jump up out of the libraries and yell, “Hey pete here i am” you gotta work to invalidate or validate it for yourself.. I’ve never said any where that you should just believe anything I share from my studies. It’s people in cognitive dissonance and denial, condemnation without doing any investigation who are acting paranoid..

            I personally have nothing to be paranoid of.. I simply point out fallacies of both political concepts.. You on the other hand do nothing to disprove anything. You simply are shrieking it ain’t so and I don’t believe.. That is refuting NOTHING..

          • RattlerRider

            National Security is in itself a Conspiracy. It is a self professed “covert operation”; a secret operation, with secret methods, secret means, and a secret agenda. And it is plainly a criminal operation outside of lawful restraint; it is constitutionally ultra vires only in the sense that the cotus was intended to protect all people here in the U.S. rather than merely some people here in the U.S… If only to protect some people as is the case that should be clear that it does not apply to all people within the U.S.

            This truth is not difficult to ascertain if one is lucid and aware. However the Public Relations Regime in the Technocratic era is profoundly sophisticated and entrenched, and has put the vast majority of the population of the earth into a deep and lasting trance

            YOU’VE GOTTA KEEP THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM ALIVE BY GAWD…